Transcript for
Families: Learning how to parent when you weren’t parented well yourself
Felicity Kime (00:00): My 16-year-old, she said to me, “Mum, I just want to let you know it’s okay not to be okay, and it’s okay to say you’re not okay.” Melted my heart. So it’s about hanging in there, just one foot in front of the other, reaching out to help and just keep doing your best.
Narrator (00:18): Welcome to the Emerging Minds podcast.
Alicia Ranford (00:23): Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford from the Emerging Minds Families podcast channel. This week we wanted to tell you a bit more about our Families channel, as well as give you a taste of what you and the families you work with can find when listening to our conversations. For those of you that aren’t aware, Emerging Minds Families is here to support you and the families you work with in your everyday practise. Our goal is to strengthen a family’s capacity to support positive mental health and to help them access further support. You can find trusted information and resources including videos, printable fact sheets, animations and more on the Emerging Minds website under the Families tab.
(01:00): Our podcast channel is also a great resource, where each fortnight we talk with people from all over Australia as they generously share with us their experiences and knowledge and the strengths and skills they’ve developed while navigating the ups and downs of parenting, raising a family, and the trickier times that life can bring.
(01:18): We also hear from professionals who offer practical strategies to help families support the mental health and wellbeing of the children and young people in their lives. The conversations are raw and unbelievably honest at times, but always explore the incredible wisdom and knowledge both families and professionals have learned throughout their journeys. We hope they can help you support the families you work with in your everyday practise.
(01:42): Today, we are sharing with you our very first episode, where we spoke to a remarkable mother of four, who talked with us about how you learn to parent when you weren’t parented. Were yourself. We hope you enjoy this episode. And if you’d like to hear more, you can find us by searching Emerging Minds Families on your favourite podcast streaming service.
(02:01): As we know, we all become parents without any formal training, and it’s one of the things that makes parenting so hard. We don’t automatically have great parenting skills just because we have a baby. There’s no manual. And for those of us with more than one child, we know that each of our children is certainly unique and arrives into this world with their own strengths and temperament. One of the main ways we discover how to raise our kids is by modelling and learning from our own parents, working this into our own style and routines. Many of you listening today might have had parents who were able to provide a safe and secure upbringing for you. Sadly, for many it’s a very different story. Joining us today is Flick. She’s a mother of four, and we are going to talk about how you learned to parent when you weren’t parented well yourself.
(02:51): Welcome, Flick. Thank you for spending this time with us today.
Felicity Kime (02:55): That’s okay. Thanks for having me.
Alicia Ranford (02:56): Flick. Can you start by telling us a bit about your own childhood and what it was like growing up in your household?
Felicity Kime (03:03): Yeah, I guess what it was like, the first scenario would be my mum was in care when she was six weeks old and met her birth family at 21. So she didn’t have the best role models and brings that into my family. So my mum didn’t raise us in the most appropriate ways. She done what she could, but her household was full of forever moving homes, moving schools, domestic violence, drug and alcohol, and a lot of my brother raising me and my sister. So there wasn’t too much guidance and my mum was in and out a lot. But for me that just become normal and I thought I’d just lived in a normal household.
Alicia Ranford (03:44): Yeah. And did you see your friends having different experiences or did you really not think about it and just, like you said, see your home life as normal?
Felicity Kime (03:52): Because I lived most of the time with mum, so when I was with mum I just really seen things as normal. But then more when I’d spend a weekend here and there with dad when he was allowed to have us, that’s when I got to go to friends’ houses and see something completely different, stuff like sitting stay at the table and eating all together, having your own bedroom with your own things and that stuff. I started thinking… Not thinking, kind of feeling, “I wish I had that.” But then that moment would go back once I was back with mum.
Alicia Ranford (04:23): So then, if we move forward from that time to when you had your first child, what was that like for you as a new mum?
Felicity Kime (04:31): Yeah, so I remember it clear as day. When I was about 12 years old, I went to a programme, Youth Off the Streets, ran by Father Chris Riley. And I lived there for a couple of years. And when I got home, I’d just turned 16 and got back into a relationship with this man that I’d met at 10 and I fell pregnant. I remember when I found out I was pregnant, I rang my caseworker from my old programme going, “What am I meant to do?” And I remember her advice to me was, “Just do everything different that your mum had done. Do the total opposite and you’ll be okay.” And I was just really scared. 17 years old, having a baby, I was just really scared, didn’t know what to do. And plus there was DV involved as well.
(05:12): And just remember giving birth and a nurse had handed me a DV card a couple of hours later. And I didn’t even know what she was giving me because she had a couple of seconds while my partner was out of the room, and so I just threw it away and didn’t even know. And then I didn’t even know how to change my child, I couldn’t breastfeed because I didn’t understand, struggling just to bottle-feed, I just didn’t know what I was doing. But in the back of my mind, all I knew I just had to do things different to my mum.
Alicia Ranford (05:40): I guess thinking about what that case worker said to you in that moment of, “Just do everything different,” it’s easy to say that, but knowing what that different is must have been quite difficult.
Felicity Kime (05:53): Oh, definitely. At first I thought, “Oh, I’m quite intelligent. I’ve got this, I’ve just got to do it different.” But that lead up from 17 with my first child to 23 with my third child, I just thought I was doing everything different, but it turned out I was doing everything the same without even knowing, that ingrained behaviour.
Alicia Ranford (06:10): How would you describe your parenting style in those early years?
Felicity Kime (06:15): I’d describe it as my mum doing the best I can. So I had an alcoholic mother and I had a father that was passing from emphysema, leaving a DV relationship. And I just thought simple things, like feeding my children, bathing them and sending them to school was all that was needed. And I thought if I ticked them boxes, I’m this great mum. Obviously now, looking back, a child needs more than that. My children were neglected in certain areas. And I say that as in it was so ingrained in me, I thought I was doing the right thing. I didn’t even know I was neglecting my children.
Alicia Ranford (06:46): Well, it must have been a very difficult time for you. Did you feel alone or did you feel like you had supports that you could go to ask for help?
Felicity Kime (06:55): Look, definitely alone. I didn’t have a constant GP, I didn’t have a therapist, social supports. My supports were just other alcoholics and drug addicts, living a very unhealthy lifestyle the way I was and they had no better knowledge than me. So there was no actual great support.
Alicia Ranford (07:15): As you moved on to have more children, did your experience change or did it remain the same for your latter children?
Felicity Kime (07:22): It was the same for my first and second child because I was still with the same partner. After my second child though, I grew some confidence and realised that living in this DV relationship wasn’t healthy. Even though we had the nicest home and the expensive furniture and bills paid, I just come to terms with this is not okay. And so I left to live with my father that was parting. So I just went on to have my third child. So that was a little bit different because I was doing that in my father’s home and he was supporting me in a more loving way, helping me feed the children if they didn’t want to eat their vegetables, pop would take over and have that done. And I felt like the world wasn’t on top of me then. It was a little bit easier, but the easier it become and the more help I got, I drunk a lot more. So it still was this unhealthy way of parenting.
(08:13): So my last child now is eight this month. So fast forwarding to him being my last child, things were a lot different. I was clean and sober, I was reaching out to parenting groups, support services, therapists. So as much as things were changed and I was able to get up for them feeds and I wanted to interact and wanted to teach my son stuff and take him for walks, it slowly changed. My son has autism, so that was a whole new ballgame, learning how to parent a autistic child. So I think it wasn’t until then, starting to do therapy around that stuff did I realise that my parenting with my other three children needs to change again. There’s still healthier ways to do things.
(08:58): But I do believe from all the knowledge I’ve got from them support services and rehabs and all that, parenting today’s a lot easier. And I can’t really put my finger on where my children are being neglected in any areas. It’s all getting covered and I understand that. And I don’t have a sense of detachment anymore. I’m now attached and present. I’ve learned some skills. But too, in the long run, parenting there is no book and it’s about learning as we go, but I’m more confident to continue parenting and learning.
Alicia Ranford (09:30): That’s fantastic, Flick. And shown a lot of resilience to get to that point. It’s a real credit to you. Do you think that there was a turning point when you did think to yourself things have to change for you and your children?
Felicity Kime (09:43): Yeah, definitely. So when I was about 23 years old, I had three children and at this stage, my dad’s in hospital and terminally ill, and my mum’s babysitting my 11-month-old child. And then, I had my daughters with me, five and six. And child protection come and remove my baby from my mum and I was horrified. I just didn’t understand what’s going on. I thought I was this perfect mum and doing everything right. And I got to be at the school with my daughters, and the principal gave me some time. And the turning point was my children crying saying, “If we be good, can we come home?” And my heart just broke going, “This has nothing to do with them,” as in their behaviour. “This is me.” And yeah, and I can see that clear as a day 11 years ago now. And it was that moment I was just like, “Something’s got to change,” and it did.
(10:34): Within a month I was in detox, and then I was into rehab and just started looking at self-help programmes. Because I believe I can do all these parenting programmes and it can teach me some skills, but until I work on my self, they’re not going to match up. I had to do a lot of self-help stuff. I just realised that I wanted to be a parent and I just worked out I just didn’t know how to be. It’s been 11 years of changing and growing and trying different tactics. And the biggest thing was I was scared to ask for help from somebody. I thought if anyone knew how I was feeling and coping, my kids would just get taken. So it was a point going, “Now, well, they are taken because you didn’t ask for help. You need to learn to reach out and reach out to the appropriate people,” and that’s what I do today.
(11:15): So it’s all about asking for help now and saying like, “It’s okay I don’t know how to do this stuff. Can you help me?” And we’d get it right.
Alicia Ranford (11:22): Absolutely. And so what would you say the biggest changes you made to your parenting style were? And you reflected a little bit on where you went to support, but where did you learn the kind of parent that you now wanted to be?
Felicity Kime (11:36): A lot of this stuff is just from other parents. I go to a lot of 12-step programmes, stay sober. And watching parents change their life and interact with their children. My own organisation that I work in, helping other parents and seeing how they actually are with children. I remember I reached out to a friend one day and I said, “Oh, I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but when I tuck my son into bed, I don’t ever tuck him in and say, ‘I love you.’ I’m disconnected.” And remember she just said to me, “Felicity, just every night just tuck him in and say, ‘I love you,’ until it becomes natural.”
(12:07): So just having friends around to guide me in that kind of way, and really putting it out there and feeling a bit embarrassed and feeling a bit shameful that I don’t know this, but being open to learn this from them. And my motto is it’s the best to learn from someone else that’s been through it or is going through it. So yeah, just watching other people interact and what they’ve had to do, and just taking pieces that I think might work for my family or try it out. If it works, it works. If it don’t, we’ll try something new.
Alicia Ranford (12:37): How powerful are those small moments of just tucking your child in to bed and telling them you love them? It’s really special.
Felicity Kime (12:44): Definitely. And that’s what I had to learn. It’s not necessarily at the start about all the big things to change. It’s just even them little things, like when my children were in child protection and I got a visit for two hours. It was about how did I spend that two hours? Instead of just saying, “Hey, how’s your day? How was school?” Was really getting in there and asking, “How was school?” And then when they answer, “Well, how were you feeling about that?” And really just diving into the moment. So it wasn’t just watching the children kick the soccer ball, it was actually getting in there and kicking the soccer ball with them. So I had a bit of growth through that stuff, and my supervisor supporting and teaching me this stuff while I was actually interacting with the children. We just find what works.
Alicia Ranford (13:25): I hear what you’re saying, that it can be a learned skill. It doesn’t have to be something that you inherently know. You can learn to be a good parent.
Felicity Kime (13:32): It is all learning because you don’t just give birth and know what you’re doing. Nobody can say, “I just gave birth and I knew exactly what to do.” You might have known some things, how to change a diaper and stuff like that.
Alicia Ranford (13:43): Cross your fingers and hope you’re doing-
Felicity Kime (13:44): Hope for the best.
Alicia Ranford (13:47): Flick, you’ve mentioned when we’ve spoken previously that one of your sons doesn’t live with you, but that you’ve worked really hard to parent him from a distance. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Felicity Kime (13:59): Yeah, so when I said that my 11-month-old was taken, he remained in care. So for 11 years, I just fought this system that I want my child to fulfil my emotional needs. And last year, guardianship went through. And I became okay with it because what happened was I went on a visit to see my son and he told me this is what he wanted. He wanted to remain with his stepmother or foster mother. And I heard him for the first time ever. And I think this is the most precious part about parenting is actually hearing your children and taking yourself out of it. And I heard him this day. And I got in the car and with my supervisor and I said, “Oh, what have I been doing for 11 years? Pushing something that I want and I haven’t heard this little boy.”
(14:48): And what I worked out was I don’t get taken out of the picture just because I’m not a full-time parent, and that the father, or in this case, the foster carer, can actually parent him pretty great, actually. So what I realised is how do we still have our time and make the most of that stuff? So not too long ago we got to be together on the water and go putter boarding together. And then that time, asking how he’s going. And I remember he said to me, “If I fall out of here mum, will you save me?” And I’m like, “Yeah, definitely. I’ll be in that water straight away.” So there are moments that I know that I’ve been able to build up this trust with him that he feels safe and that’s what it’s about. It’s not about having to sleep under my roof.
(15:30): It would be beautiful, don’t get wrong, all the kids together, but how do we make the most of this stuff when we are living separate? And it is, it’s trying to have phone calls, letters. We’ve got social media now we can have texts in private message, and FaceTime, and all that kind of stuff. I’ve been able to sit down with him and do his family tree at the park with him, and let him know who his family is and where he’s from. And I didn’t need to do that from my own home. But that’s the way I was thinking. That’s the stigma on parents, especially women, that we have to be the primary carer, and that’s not the case. There’s other ways to do this stuff and everyone can remain happy.
Alicia Ranford (16:10): And also, that family can mean different things. We don’t have to be a nuclear family, do we? Family can be all sorts of different shapes and sizes.
Felicity Kime (16:19): Exactly. Exactly.
Alicia Ranford (16:21): I know that you are an advocate for parents navigating through the child protection system. And I know you’ve had conversations before about your life and this journey that you’ve been on. Can you tell me why you feel it’s important to talk about these things?
Felicity Kime (16:40): Yeah, the biggest part is that if I look back and if you hear back from what I was saying, there was nobody, I had nothing, I had nobody. Even before the kids were removed, I had no one to say, “Hey Flick, what’s going on?” So that’s why I love supporting parents just to say, “Hey, are you okay? What’s going on here?” And just listen because I try and work out when was I ever heard? From a child living in a pretty hectic family with child abuse and sexual abuse and all that kind of stuff, no one ever heard me. Fighting with the department for my children back, I still wasn’t heard. And it wasn’t until I actually was in my own work service, go “We’re listening. We’re here. How can we support you?” And that brought me hope, and I think parents just need some hope to continue on in their journeys. No matter if it’s up or down, you’ve got a bit of hope and someone to hear us, things will be okay.
Alicia Ranford (17:29): You have showed such a lot of resilience through this journey, Flick. And I’m wondering what advice you would give to others who perhaps grew up in a similar environment, that are either considering becoming parents or are parents already?
Felicity Kime (17:45): I think just don’t forget people are there. It’s just about finding the right kind of people and just being honest on how you feel. Some days it’s hard waking up six times a night to a baby to feed them, and that’s okay. We’re allowed to feel tired, we’re allowed to feel down, we’re allowed to feel happy. All this stuff is normal, but the longer we keep it to ourself, we feel like it’s not normal, so it’s about just expressing that stuff to other people, and really reaching out when you’re not okay. Like my 16-year-old just said to me the other day, I was in Melbourne because I’m on this journey of flying the country, and she said to me, “Mum, I just want to let you know it’s not to be okay, and it’s okay to say you’re not okay.” And I was just like, “Oh, bless you.” It just melted my heart. So it’s about hanging in there, just one foot in front of the other, reaching out to help and just keep doing your best.
Alicia Ranford (18:37): And as a mother myself, I think sometimes we try and portray this perfect image of happy, clean children. We’ve got a tidy home, everything’s put together. And more often than not, that’s not the reality of being a mum.
Felicity Kime (18:53): And definitely, my autistic boy, he loves to smudge food all over his face before it actually goes in his mouth, and he only wants to wear certain things and sometimes when he dresses himself, it’s very interesting. I had to let go of that stigma myself too. And plus my trauma. If my house isn’t cleaned up, my kid’s going to be removed. So my son’s taught me how to let that stuff go because anything may happen when me and him’s out and about. No one’s home is perfect. And if I’m walking into a perfect home, I’m wondering what’s going on. Walking to a home that is lived in, people are happy.
Alicia Ranford (19:27): Is there anything else that you feel is important in this conversation that we highlight?
Felicity Kime (19:33): Just more the remembrance that we’re all human beings just trying our hardest, and it’s okay to make a mistakes. We’re still just trying to get through the day as best as we can. And part of life is making mistakes, it’s just that we don’t give up once we make the mistake. We change that and move forward. But I just think people forget a story like mine… When my kids got removed, people just thought I just didn’t love my children and I neglected them. And I like to tell people, I didn’t wake up one day and go, “You know what? I’m going to neglect my children today.” That was not the story. My family has three generations of child protection. I have multiple generations of alcoholism. There’s a story behind what went on with my children being removed. There’s still a story today behind the success I am in life. There’s always a story. And if we can just take a moment to ask people, are they okay and hear their story out, we might have more understanding of the person and how we can actually help.
Alicia Ranford (20:31): Thank you, Flick, for taking the time to share your story with us today. It has been a fantastic insight into parenting and learning to parent when you haven’t been parented well yourself.
Felicity Kime (20:42): Thank you.
Alicia Ranford (20:43): You have been listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. If anything spoken about today has been distressing for you or you find yourself struggling, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline on 13 11 14, or more resources for support can be found in our show notes.
Narrator (21:00): Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au to access a range of resources to assist your practise. Brought to you by The National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health, led by Emerging Minds. The National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.